This is not correct. Apparently the LBD, which is an official and internationally recognised Beis Din, were so satisfied of the truth of the allegations that they published a gilui daas.
Are you mad? I assure you from many years personal experience personal experience that their hechsher, their divorces and their dinei momonos etc. rulings are FAR more reliable than Kedassia's.
Who actually published it we, of course, cannot know. It is certainly signed by five of the most senior and learned and experienced Rabbonim in England and they have never denied it.
They certainly truly believed the allegations and were prepared to put it in writing and it is beyond the bounds of credibility that it was published against their wishes.
Anonymous - the one at fault here is not Chaim Halpern - like any sociopath (such as Todros Grynhaus, Dovid Weinberger, Motti Elon etc) he is incapable of seeing that he did anything wrong and will fight to the death before giving in. It is rather the arch-crook Rav Padwa (and his defenders such as RYMG) who are prepared to sacrifice every shred of tzedek and yashrus to avoid causing themselves more bother. The beast of Bridge Lane would not be able to play these games with the beis din if Rav Padwa wasn't backing him up.
The sad thing is that people still care about him - all us "goyim" in modern kehillos have moved on with a beis din filled with actual talmidei chachomim (not inherited by birth right), a kashrus system that actually works (I can give actual examples of kedassia mashgichim ignoring situations of bosor vcholov, bishul akum and chilul shabbos by their laziness and ignorance) and rabbonim who are yerei shomayim and not people who just want power and kovod People who are genuinely upset by this chilul hashem and abuse of power just have to swallow thier pride and go to any number of shuls who couldn't care less about all of this - but then they couldn't look down their noses at the rest of us!!
This is not true. It is no use blaming the mashgichim. With very few exceptions they are erliche yungerleit concientouslly doing a difficult and not very rewarding job for a far from ideal employer.
The people to blame are the bosses in general and the Rabbonim in particular who take no interest whatever in what the mashgichim are doing or take any interest in their welfare etc.
I would never say that hasgocho is easy - my mother had control over a shul kitchen for 20 years and it is very hard - however when a system exists where mashgichim are only yotze venichnas many problems occur - as I said only by a miracle did my shul not have a cholent and cheese cake kiddush becuase the mashgiach was not around and hadn't checked what was being served - the fact is that when klbd is decried by the heimishise olom they should be aware that there hasgocho that I have seen with my own eyes is far superior - on an individual level I am sure that you do the best you can My point is that as long as the hemishe olom support your bosses nothing will change - if they voted with their feet and joined the modern kehillos changes would be made as they would no longer have the power, money and influence that has made the chareidi rabbonus such a bizayon
Many people think like you but it is not easy. Stamford Hill is a bit of a "1984" environment. There are parnossos, shidduchim, kids in school and other considerations that must be taken into account. And, of course, as in 1984 many (and possibly most) believe all the propaganda. With the internet ban the only access to news and information that most people in Stamford Hill have is Hamodia and Tribune. 'Nuff said? They don't support the bosses. They are trapped.
LBD is far superior? Don't make me laugh. See their "illustrious" history in the latest HaKohol, or in Bernard Homa's book available at www.israel613.com/books/MACHZIKE_DAT_LONDON-E.pdf.
Is the sacred Jewish Chronicle also full of lies? See their issue of 23rd December 1898, quoted in the aforementioned book (p33), or check the microfilms if you don't believe Mr Homa:-
‘As a result of the meeting, a deputation of the butchers waited upon the Chief Rabbi to explain that the entire discontinuance of the sale of kidney fat and hindquarters was quite impracticable. Dr. Adler withdrew his prohibition and fresh regulations were made.'
Really not quite sure what you think that has to do with current LBD kashrus standards, especially when the Machzikei Hadath shechita shut down because of the vast improvements over the years in the London Board of Shechita.
Anonymous 30 April In the 19th century it was common in shechita throughout Europe to be menaker (porge) and sell the hindquarters. Otherwise there would have been no beef. The banning of hindquarters in UK was Rabbi Ambramski's takono. It was fairly easy because it was and still is possible to sell it to non-Jewish butchers. It is still somewhat controversial as some say that as a result of the takonoh the whole toiras hanikur has been forgotten.
It is of interest to point out that in the Beis Hamikdosh korbonois that were eaten (chatoss, sh'lommim, toidoh) the chalovim were removed and put on the mizbeiach and the meat eaten.
Anyone who thinks Bernard Homa, who was the President of UK Mizrachi and wrote a whole book against metzitza be'peh would favour Kedassia over the LBD in the current context is living in cloud cuckoo land. It's akin to saying the Conservative Seminary (JTS) in NY is kosher based on the people who founded it a century ago.
The funny thing is the LBD Dayonim actually don't care what Keddasia think about them - they have a worldwide stellar reputation and actually do some good for the wider kehillo rather than just look for chumros, bans and to make life difficult for people
What's did hakohol say about Lbd? Maybe it could be a new topic or heading?
Also is it true that reb Dovid Khon has a letter from the beis din which says that they are not coming back due to pressure from the H family and from Padwa??
They say he has a letter of sorts. It's clear that Chaim Halpern is not willing to stand in front of the beis din and therefore it will not be happening. Just goes to show how trustworthy Rav Padwa is - he tells everyone that they should do nothing about Chaim Halpern because of the beis din and when it comes down to it he lets him weasel out of it. This is the man who SH look to as their 'rov'. What a joke. Ein melech beloi om.
When will golders green break away from keddassia?
This is the real question!
95% of the frum community do not supprt keddassia.
In fact keddassia is despised by the vast majority of the community. Even the die-hards tolerate keddassia simply because there is nothing better.
How many people think the current keddassia as it stands with the current leadership/GAVD is an ideal set up for the frum residents of GG?? NONE,
What we need to do is break away as a restructure is not possible as Stamfordhill won't allow it.
Happy days!
And Charlie still practices as a Rabbi! Even reform wouldn't accept him, but we tolerate him shokling away etc with hundreds of vulnerable abuse victims living lives of intimidation and shame!
If that's the case then it is the silent majority who want him gone but for social reasons won't leave the evil that's kedassia and the union - they are causing the problems - as soon as people vote with their wallet and feet things will change very qiockly - it seems people are more concerned with image then being a mensch
I can confirm from a reliable source that reb Dovid Khon has a letter from the beis din which says that they are not coming back as the goalposts have been moved.
There are 3 partied involved.
Giluy daas rabonim and general GG rabonim: would like a beis din to come and rule with original agreement
Halpern family: originally agrees that victims would not have to face CH face to face in front of the besis din, now the police are not involved are changing the original agreements and insisting on facing all the victims face to face. Obviously violated frum women or girls will not face CH!
Third party is Keddassia, ie Padwa and Eisner etc: They are going with the H side as they don't really want a resoloution, remember that Padwa was warned about CH's abuse 15 years ago, so is very much to blame for abuse post this time.
It is worth noting that in secular courts a defendant no longer had the right to cross examine a complainant in these sort of cases. The defendant must use a legal professional to cross examine on his behalf. The reason is of course to prevent lenghthy and humiliating questions of an intricate and embarrassing nature. A legal professional will be bound by professional rules and sanctions.
Second point, imagine the position if the GD rabbonim had not coperated with the BD and what people would say or think.
The Makave Rebbe is married to R' Chaim's sister.
ReplyDeleteOh wow, is his sister also a player?
DeleteHis idiotic letter to the Sadigerrer speaks for itself
ReplyDeleteapparently the reason for the visit is to be mechazek his brother in law our good friend, Reb Chaim.
ReplyDeleteI am not sure that its such a bad thing. No allegations against Reb Chaim were proven by a beis din therefore he is totally innocent!
This is not correct. Apparently the LBD, which is an official and internationally recognised Beis Din, were so satisfied of the truth of the allegations that they published a gilui daas.
DeleteFirstly the LBD did not publish any gilui daas, it was published by individuals.
ReplyDeleteSecondly the LBD is not a hareidi beis din and wouldn't be recognized by the heimisher kehilah.
I reiterate that no beis dis has paskemed that reb chaim is guilty so therefore he is innocent.
As long as he is innocent the makever Rebbe should visit and support our Rav!
Not a chareidi Beis Din?
DeleteAre you mad?
I assure you from many years personal experience personal experience that their hechsher, their divorces and their dinei momonos etc. rulings are FAR more reliable than Kedassia's.
Who actually published it we, of course, cannot know. It is certainly signed by five of the most senior and learned and experienced Rabbonim in England and they have never denied it.
DeleteThey certainly truly believed the allegations and were prepared to put it in writing and it is beyond the bounds of credibility that it was published against their wishes.
The LBD is not Charedi, the Sadigerrer rebbe is not chassidish, touching with a towel is not touching, bla bla bla.
ReplyDelete@reb innocent
ReplyDeleteIf only your Rov would let the Beis Din from Israel return....
Who is he to let or not, its time they sould just give their psack din and end his rabistiveh and this saga once and for all
ReplyDeleteAnonymous - the one at fault here is not Chaim Halpern - like any sociopath (such as Todros Grynhaus, Dovid Weinberger, Motti Elon etc) he is incapable of seeing that he did anything wrong and will fight to the death before giving in. It is rather the arch-crook Rav Padwa (and his defenders such as RYMG) who are prepared to sacrifice every shred of tzedek and yashrus to avoid causing themselves more bother. The beast of Bridge Lane would not be able to play these games with the beis din if Rav Padwa wasn't backing him up.
ReplyDeleteThe sad thing is that people still care about him - all us "goyim" in modern kehillos have moved on with a beis din filled with actual talmidei chachomim (not inherited by birth right), a kashrus system that actually works (I can give actual examples of kedassia mashgichim ignoring situations of bosor vcholov, bishul akum and chilul shabbos by their laziness and ignorance) and rabbonim who are yerei shomayim and not people who just want power and kovod
ReplyDeletePeople who are genuinely upset by this chilul hashem and abuse of power just have to swallow thier pride and go to any number of shuls who couldn't care less about all of this - but then they couldn't look down their noses at the rest of us!!
This is not true. It is no use blaming the mashgichim. With very few exceptions they are erliche yungerleit concientouslly doing a difficult and not very rewarding job for a far from ideal employer.
DeleteThe people to blame are the bosses in general and the Rabbonim in particular who take no interest whatever in what the mashgichim are doing or take any interest in their welfare etc.
I mostly agree. But also to blame are the tzibur who lazily associate Kedassia with rotzon Hashem despite all evidence to the contrary.
DeleteI would never say that hasgocho is easy - my mother had control over a shul kitchen for 20 years and it is very hard - however when a system exists where mashgichim are only yotze venichnas many problems occur - as I said only by a miracle did my shul not have a cholent and cheese cake kiddush becuase the mashgiach was not around and hadn't checked what was being served - the fact is that when klbd is decried by the heimishise olom they should be aware that there hasgocho that I have seen with my own eyes is far superior - on an individual level I am sure that you do the best you can
DeleteMy point is that as long as the hemishe olom support your bosses nothing will change - if they voted with their feet and joined the modern kehillos changes would be made as they would no longer have the power, money and influence that has made the chareidi rabbonus such a bizayon
Many people think like you but it is not easy. Stamford Hill is a bit of a "1984" environment.
DeleteThere are parnossos, shidduchim, kids in school and other considerations that must be taken into account. And, of course, as in 1984 many (and possibly most) believe all the propaganda. With the internet ban the only access to news and information that most people in Stamford Hill have is Hamodia and Tribune. 'Nuff said?
They don't support the bosses. They are trapped.
LBD is far superior? Don't make me laugh.
DeleteSee their "illustrious" history in the latest HaKohol, or in Bernard Homa's book available at
www.israel613.com/books/MACHZIKE_DAT_LONDON-E.pdf.
Do you really believe anything in HaKohol? It is full of lies.
DeleteYou are in a bad way.
Is the sacred Jewish Chronicle also full of lies? See their issue of 23rd December 1898, quoted in the aforementioned book (p33), or check the microfilms if you don't believe Mr Homa:-
Delete‘As a result of the meeting, a deputation of the butchers waited upon the Chief Rabbi to explain that the entire discontinuance of the sale of kidney fat and hindquarters was quite impracticable. Dr. Adler withdrew his prohibition and fresh regulations were made.'
Really not quite sure what you think that has to do with current LBD kashrus standards, especially when the Machzikei Hadath shechita shut down because of the vast improvements over the years in the London Board of Shechita.
DeleteAnonymous 30 April
DeleteIn the 19th century it was common in shechita throughout Europe to be menaker (porge) and sell the hindquarters. Otherwise there would have been no beef.
The banning of hindquarters in UK was Rabbi Ambramski's takono. It was fairly easy because it was and still is possible to sell it to non-Jewish butchers.
It is still somewhat controversial as some say that as a result of the takonoh the whole toiras hanikur has been forgotten.
It is of interest to point out that in the Beis Hamikdosh korbonois that were eaten (chatoss, sh'lommim, toidoh) the chalovim were removed and put on the mizbeiach and the meat eaten.
Anyone who thinks Bernard Homa, who was the President of UK Mizrachi and wrote a whole book against metzitza be'peh would favour Kedassia over the LBD in the current context is living in cloud cuckoo land. It's akin to saying the Conservative Seminary (JTS) in NY is kosher based on the people who founded it a century ago.
ReplyDeleteYep! And believing what the Hakohol says about LBD is like believing what Der Sturmer says about jews.
DeleteThe funny thing is the LBD Dayonim actually don't care what Keddasia think about them - they have a worldwide stellar reputation and actually do some good for the wider kehillo rather than just look for chumros, bans and to make life difficult for people
ReplyDeleteWhat's did hakohol say about Lbd? Maybe it could be a new topic or heading?
ReplyDeleteAlso is it true that reb Dovid Khon has a letter from the beis din which says that they are not coming back due to pressure from the H family and from Padwa??
1. Read about the foil dish covers (5773)
DeleteIn 5774 they became (Kedasia) kosher:-)
2. No.
They say he has a letter of sorts. It's clear that Chaim Halpern is not willing to stand in front of the beis din and therefore it will not be happening. Just goes to show how trustworthy Rav Padwa is - he tells everyone that they should do nothing about Chaim Halpern because of the beis din and when it comes down to it he lets him weasel out of it. This is the man who SH look to as their 'rov'. What a joke. Ein melech beloi om.
ReplyDeleteWhen will golders green break away from keddassia?
ReplyDeleteThis is the real question!
95% of the frum community do not supprt keddassia.
In fact keddassia is despised by the vast majority of the community. Even the die-hards tolerate keddassia simply because there is nothing better.
How many people think the current keddassia as it stands with the current leadership/GAVD is an ideal set up for the frum residents of GG?? NONE,
What we need to do is break away as a restructure is not possible as Stamfordhill won't allow it.
Happy days!
And Charlie still practices as a Rabbi! Even reform wouldn't accept him, but we tolerate him shokling away etc with hundreds of vulnerable abuse victims living lives of intimidation and shame!
If that's the case then it is the silent majority who want him gone but for social reasons won't leave the evil that's kedassia and the union - they are causing the problems - as soon as people vote with their wallet and feet things will change very qiockly - it seems people are more concerned with image then being a mensch
DeleteEckstien's closing down must show that the silent majority are already voting with their wallets and are not supporting Keddassia
DeleteI can confirm from a reliable source that reb Dovid Khon has a letter from the beis din which says that they are not coming back as the goalposts have been moved.
ReplyDeleteThere are 3 partied involved.
Giluy daas rabonim and general GG rabonim: would like a beis din to come and rule with original agreement
Halpern family: originally agrees that victims would not have to face CH face to face in front of the besis din, now the police are not involved are changing the original agreements and insisting on facing all the victims face to face. Obviously violated frum women or girls will not face CH!
Third party is Keddassia, ie Padwa and Eisner etc: They are going with the H side as they don't really want a resoloution, remember that Padwa was warned about CH's abuse 15 years ago, so is very much to blame for abuse post this time.
It is worth noting that in secular courts a defendant no longer had the right to cross examine a complainant in these sort of cases. The defendant must use a legal professional to cross examine on his behalf. The reason is of course to prevent lenghthy and humiliating questions of an intricate and embarrassing nature. A legal professional will be bound by professional rules and sanctions.
ReplyDeleteSecond point, imagine the position if the GD rabbonim had not coperated with the BD and what people would say or think.