Latest update !!
The beis din has sent a letter of siruv to 3 parties.
1. To the halpern family who are keeping it under wraps, maybe its wrapped up in a towel.
2. To eisner who initiated the beis din on behalf of keddassia. Its possibly wrapped up in dayan padwas cover ups.
3. To reb d Kohn, Reb P Roberts is keeping it back!
The letter was sent before pessach!!
__________________________
Reb Dovid Khon has a letter from the beis din which says that they are not coming back as the goalposts have been moved.
Originally CH agreed that victims would not have to face him in front of the besis din, now as the police are not involved he is changing the original agreements and insisting on facing all the victims face to face. Obviously violated frum women or girls will not face CH!
So the short of it is, reb chaim is innocent! No beis din or police dare challenge our Rav!
ReplyDeleteFrom all I can ascertain, all Innocent products - even if there is nothing remotely suspect listed - are not kosher.
DeleteSo all the gullible people in DC who stayed on the promise of an imminent psak BD are left hung out to dry indefinitely.
ReplyDeleteWell done Dovid Cohn, Padwa et al.
Nice job in living up to promises and looking out for the welfare of the tzibbur.
Why do you blame Kon and Padwa? The people who stayed on, chose to ignore a giluy daas torah, and all common sense. They have only themselves to blame.
DeleteAnybody who hung on knew that the likelihood was that this would happen.
ReplyDeleteThe Senior Rabbonim should get together and act, but of course they won't.
Shameful acts, perpetrated by Mamzerim, and condoned by the Orthodox leadership's unwillingness to act.
As to the soft-headed shmoks who stand up for abusers, what goes around - comes around. Karma is a bitch
What a joke.
ReplyDeleteThis now allows anyone to do what they wish....just request for the women to be in the same room in Bes Din, and you can possibly get Scott free.
How corrupt!
Do we still trust the shochtim of this institution?
I'd probably still trust the shochtim. My problem is trusting anyone along the trail after the shochtim have turned on to the next animal and have put their cut (literally) in their bags to take home. Way down below ground on the trust scale are the dayonim who are responsible for the hechsher. I don't trust them, but even if I did, they have no chezkas kashus, therefore, nobody is permitted to rely on their hechsher. Anyone who has not witnessed the shchita, bdika, mlichah, nikkur, etc., in person, and has not witnessed the carcass all the way to the butchers, but is merely relying on a logo that says Kedassia Kosher, has no halachically accepted grounds for assuming the meat is kosher. He'd be better off buying meat from a supermarket. There is no difference in kashrus but there would be an astounding cost saving.
DeleteForget shochtim, they also produce matzos which are chometz gomur as an unlucky Munks family discovered this year (the chometz matzos had to be burned). When that crook Scharf was asked about it he put the phone down! This gang of swindlers have been making a nice living out of impersonating a frum organization for far too long.
ReplyDeleteHis name is Asaraff, he was found guilty of fraudulent activities then he joined Kedassia then he changed his name to Sharff
DeleteAnd with that background, you can bet he fitted right in!
DeleteAs I've said many times it is down to the silent majority who would rather associate with such crooks and reshoim than possibly daven in a shul associated with LBD. People who buy keddassia products, daven ina union shul or use any of their services only have themselves to balme - when people get some guts and go elsewhere - they will act - not because these so called rabbis are good or holy but because they are money grabbing and power mad
ReplyDeleteWhat's the matzos story?
ReplyDeleteWhat about the chometz netting on meat in gross and eckstein! Lucky I shop in the outlet which had pessachdick netting from prime cut! Phew!!
That's funny. Last year the foil dish covers with an LBD hechsher were described by several senior Kedasia "experts" (you know who I mean!) as chometz gommur.
DeleteThis year the identical thing had a Kedasia hechsher (and incidentally were about 20% more expensive).
A family from nw London opened their extortionately expensive of kedassia certified kosher ul pessach 18 minute guaranteed matzos, to discover a box of raw unbaked dough. - Something that Rakusens and Tesco as well as all the other brands of unacceptable matzos refrain from producing.
DeleteSince this Chaim H story, all respect for rabbis have gone down the drain. Excellent job keddasia
ReplyDeleteRabbis get the respect they deserve. Respect for RSW, R. Hager and the LBD has not decreased - if anything the opposite, but it rightfully has done for slimeballs like Rabbis(?) Padwa and Eisner. The "shma mino denicho lehu" of rabbis Roberts, Stern and Greenberg (who are doing nothing despite the fact that it has become clear that the UOHC is not investigating the extremely serious allegations against CH) is being heard loud and clear too.
ReplyDeleteRespect for RSW, RGH, and the LBD has not decreased by the same degree. But all rabbis have lost respect. Not one rov has actually taken positive action to remove a communal cancer, or to give any effective counselling to the community.
Deletelet's try not to trash all the rabbonim in town and stick to what's important! We were promised a proper transparent investigation by independent rabbonim of high caliber and that's all we want
ReplyDeleteLeaving things unresolved for years will wreck the kehilla and we don't deserve that !
We were promised!!!
DeleteRabbis and politicians. :-(
Agreed. We can carp against Padwa and co all we like but we must never forget that it is Charlie Menuvel and his disgusting brother who are the cause of all this destruction. Their names will be remembered ledeiro'oin oilom.
ReplyDeleteAll in it for the money and power!!!
ReplyDeleteIf you only knew how much keddasia is of a mafia organisation, terrorising businesses destroyed lives etc, how can we continue eating there hechsher???
And now it comes out that Porky chazer was recorded bashmutzing the Sadigerrer rebbe after the rebbe came to visit his father. The only positive thing about all of this is that after 120 of their father, these two pieces of demonic lard will have nobody to protect them and will finally get what they deserve.
ReplyDeleteNo!?! (Shock; horror). Porky would steep so low as to bashmutz his father's visitor - I find this post totally unbelievable and out of character.
DeleteAnd A Weitz was caught red-handed lying to RDC. Keep playing your dirty games Charlie-boys. Let's see where it gets you!
ReplyDeleteRed-handed lies or red-herrings?
DeleteThe dayonim are still in discussions with CH and his brother as to the set-up of the beis din. They are being given another chance to play by the rules but if they carry on with their minhag avosam biydeiyhem there will supposedly be a written communication to the public to make it clear that they are at fault.
ReplyDeleteMy dear sir,
DeleteI am not sure who you are speaking to, hoping that the beis din are coming back and CH and MH are in negotiation on allowing the beis din to interview the victims without CH present.
This is very different to what reb Dovid khon is saying.
CH is not intrested in a beis din as with all the evidence only a guilty psak is possible
We have already had a Beis Din adjudicating on this matter. The Gilui Daas was signed by 5 dayanim all senior members of one of the world's most reputable and respected Botei Din. For us common plebs that should be more than enough.
DeleteThe whole UOHC "court of enquiry" was just a smoke screen to appease certain powerful vested interests.
Just imagine, suppose the Beis Din of Keddassia came out with some ruling or p'sak and you or I said "no, we are not accepting this until it has been investigated and reported on by an independent outside Beis Din appointed by us".
Makes you think!
I don't disagree with any of this. All I reported is ongoing negotiations which will almost certainly lead to nothing. CH has no intention of submitting himself to a beis din that isn't in his pocket (or with women that he can't terrorise like he did after the last occasion he was hauled in front of a panel of rabbonim), and Rav Padwa, out of "respect" for Reb Chuna will not force him to. The only thing we can hope for (at best) is the letter I spoke of, which is unlikely to have much of an impact. And there we stand, at least as long as Reb Chuna is around.
DeleteMinhag avosam be-Towels
DeletePerhaps we should have invited an outside BD to adjudicate if the netting of the chicken before Pesach was Chometz or not.
ReplyDeleteOr the foil dishes. Or the milk. Or the GG eiruv. Or walking with your wife to tashlich.
Deleteבית מדרשו של הגר"א פאדווה שליט"א בשכונת סטמפורד היל, עלה באש • הגורם: שהוא נגד קבוצת נשים שהם מתפללות תחלים ביחד!
ReplyDeleteAs i keep saying all of this would be irrelevent if people forced the union to act by boycotting kedassia or it's shuls - all union members and rabbonim are culpable unless they make a stand - north hendon did to their credit - maybe it's time for others to follow suit
ReplyDeleteAnonymous - while of course you are right in principle, remember that (a) GG is a pretty conservative place and (b) not everyone is prepared to "go it alone" as North Hendon did. Their rov remains on the UOHC NW beis din too.
ReplyDeleteThe challenge is to build up an alternative, viable framework for the Charedi shuls of GG. Lots of people recognise that the status quo is unsustainable, but it takes £££ and talented askonus to bring the disparate kehillos of GG under one banner.
Whilst few organizations can be as bad as the kleptomaniac- (and goodness knows what else maniac) run UOHC, a war of all against all (as one sees often in Charedi kehillos in the US) is in nobody's interest.
So yes, secession is the order of the day, but it must be done with tact and foresight.
Shimon - the difference being that in the UK you already have other existing organisations that could be utilised eg the Feds - who would give enough autonomy to the chareidi kehillos but get them away from the union - it is time to stop worrying about yenem and just do it
ReplyDeleteAnonymous - if the transition can be managed effectively, that sounds like the most plausible solution.
ReplyDeleteThe Fed's hechsher is already quite widely respected, although they'd need to develop some sort of 'mehadrin' option beyond the regular LBS meat for GG to be happy (perhaps in conjunction with R. Knopfler's "oif mehadrin"?).
And they'd have to sort out an organizational structure which is less hierarchical than its current setup.
But other than that, if GG can get over its delusion that its 'heimish' brand of Yiddishkeit has anything in common with SH, then joining the Fed would certainly make much more sense than starting from scratch.
Anonymous 8. may 07:50
ReplyDeleteWhen K'hal Chassidim GG Rd. started great pressure was put on them not to go ahead (REH feared that his "cream" would leave him) and the UOHC refused to let them in. The feds offered them some sweeteners to join them and they were only to happy to accept.
Within a few days the "BigWigs" from UOHC went after them and also offered them sweeteners to join themand to this day they are under UOHC.
Not unlike the story of when Rabbi M Leifer (Nadvorna, Darenth Road) opened his Beis Hamedrash.
Very true.
DeleteThat's why kehal chassidim is also the beis horo'o for golders green. The uohc had to put their money where their mouth is to keep kehal chassidim from joining the feds
absolute rubbish!! the true facts are that kehal chassidim started in the uohc and were there for a few years. it was only when they were looking to buy a building and the feds offered them the money to do so if they officially joined the federation. after that there was pressure on them not to and the union bought the building and let part of it to kehal chassidim.
DeleteNo sir. This is not true. I was involved in the founding of Kehal Chasidim and am still involved with it on a daily basis. I was one of the people who was approached by the UOHC when we started.
DeleteWe were given a sob-story about REH's agmas nefesh and how we are wrecking the Golders Green "achdus" and so on and also some (not very!) veiled threats.
There was some negotiation and we also have quite a few members who are chasidim of REH so we did a deal. This is an over-simplification and there is more to it but I don't want to open old wounds.
The feds had already offered us premises. I'm not saying it wasn't an issue but it certainly wasn't the clincher.
UOHC certainly didn't buy the building because they wanted us to have to have premises.
you haven't contradicted anything that I said. Kehal Chassidim was going to jump ship and join the Feds and the Union had to buy them a building to keep them in the UOHC
Deletei was replying to stamford hiller, not you.
DeleteShimon
ReplyDeleteThe Chalak meat of LBS is of far higher standing the so called glatt of kedassia - haven spoken to kedassia shochtim - they call everything glatt which is impossible - at least LBS is honest - chalak at the very highest level (to take the chumros of the beis yosef into account) and regular for everything else
As I mentioned I can give you documented examples of so called keddasia kashrus which is laughable if it wasn't so serious
As I keep saying it is all about status and if individuals didn't keep looking over their shoulders and just started to buy other meat and daven in other shuls it would soon change - wholesale changes will only come about when individuals have the balls to do things differently because it is the right thing to do and not what is socially acceptable
It's true that the glatt of the LBS is better but there are still things that Kedassia do that the LBS don't.
DeleteFor example.
Tsumas Hagidin. As chickens have been bred to grow faster than they would naturally, they have adult sized bodies on very young legs. Kedassia say this causes tearing of the gidin (sinews) and so every chicken had to be checked for that. LBS say it is a miut sheinoi motsui and only spot check.
Kedassia only use their own Shochtim who they know are yirei shomayim. LBS also use teams of shochtim who come in for a couple of weeks at a time from Israel as week as their own.
R Padwa ztzl put in place that the shochtim cannot be put under pressure to ensure that no mistakes are made and no corners are cut. Therefore they only shecht in this country so they sleep at home every night, and have quite easy hours.
Kedassia shecht far fewer per hour than the LBS to ensure no mistakes are made and it's less pressurized.
I agree the LBS are excellent and their hashgocha is far better than Kedassia. But Kedassia didn't get their position by default, they earned it through the higher value of their shechita
Lbs chalak may be more chumrodik with 1 chumrah on the lungs but has the lbs shochtim and lbs salting and lbs butchers, less chumrodik in all these areas,
DeleteSorry but you fail to understand the difference,
I am not a keddassia fan, but keddassia is generally a mehadrim shechita from start to finish, we don't have chalak as we are a ashchenazi kehilah.
What does bother me is why keddassia don't do a chalak production for the keddassia separadim, this failure to provide this service is a really bad! Hundreds of frum separdim in london have to eat lbs or go without beef! For them our glat is simply not glat!
Tesco meat is far cheaper and yummmm
DeleteDear Kedassia (I'll ignore Mr keddassia starves londons frum separadim of beef!, as it's self evident that he has not even attained the basic elements of kasrus).
DeleteThe reason kedassia consider tsumas hagidin to be sufficiently motzuy to require checking is that kedassia buy very small numbers of chickens which affords them very weak purchasing muscle. In order to maintain some modicum of economic reality they buy the cheapest option, chickens that are kept cooped up in tiny coops with barely space to move. They inevitably suffer far higher statistical rates of damage. However LBS purchase in far greater numbers enabling them to buy a better quality bird at a better price. They are able to buy chickens that are free to wander about a yard. These chickens are much healthier and the numbers with issues of tsumas hagidin are indeed a miut sheinoh motzuy.
Kedassia only use their own shochtim because the producers from abroad find kedassia's facilities to be inadequate. The LBS facilities are state of the art and foreign producers aee only too happy to pay to use them. All UK slaughtered production sold under LBD hechsher was slaughtered by the LBD's approved shochtim.
Kedassia shochtim shecht fewer because the demand for their shchita is far less. And the shochtim who go abroad to shecht do so to maintain the affordability of kosher meat. They are all well compensated and don't do any more than they would back home. Not being home every night is usually considered a perk and a rest, as is evidenced by the numbers of people who travel abroad for recreational purposes.
Finally, your last paragraph is self contradictory. There is nothing good about kedassia standards.
פי האסון and others you seem to have ignored my points so I'll repeat them.
DeleteThe reason for needing to check the gidin has very little to do with the quality of the chickens or how they are kept. Its primarily to do with the fact that almost all chickens bred for slaughter nowadays are bred and fed specially so that they grow adult sized bodies very very quickly and are too heavy for their young legs and sinews to support.
It is madness to say that the Shochtim prefer to work away from home. Recreational holidays are completely different to having to travel for work. I presume you don;t have to travel for work. If you did you would know it's defintiely not a perk!
The reason the LBD use foreign Shochtim is because even the LBS cannot afford to employ enough full time Shochtim. the LBS will bring in a group of Shochtim who will fly into Ireland and shecht 6 weeks worth of chickens in 2 weeks.
The reason why Kedassia employ all their own Shochtim is because R' Padwa ZTKL made a point of only using their own ones who he and his Dayonim had personally approved.
My last paragraph is not self contradictory. I agree, as most people would, that the day to day hashgocha of the LBD is far better than Kedassia's. Kedassia rely on yotsoi vnechnas, wereas LBD use Mashgichim Temidi. LBD mashgichim are amazingly well trained, almost certainly better than Kedassia. Unfortuntely this is not neccesarily the case with Federation hashgocha which is nowhere near as strict as LBD.
This day to day Hashgocha is a completely separate issue to the chumros in shechita that Kedassia insist on.
Almost all entirely correct (Kedassia shechita and bedika is very good - it's the hashgocho that's not always up to par), except for the bit about tzomes hagidin - LBS specify how their chickens are grown, and the little bit of extra room brings down the level of treifos markedly.
DeleteKedassia - you neglect to mention that the LBS dictate the growing conditions of the chickens they buy, which ensures that the tzomes hagidin are very rarely damaged (under 2%). Kedassia, on the other hand, do not do this, which is why they have a much higher proportion of problems.
ReplyDeleteRemember that no hechsher in the world checked the tzomes hagidin until recently.
And there are plenty of other ways to by individually checked chickens in London, without giving money to the organization that is responsible for the terrible chillul Hashem of the past year and a half, and whose yashrus lags far behind their kashrus
Dear keddassia,
ReplyDeleteYou mention keddassia checking the tzimus hagidim and lbs not doing so.
Well keddassia need to check their chicken feet as they buy cheap chickins which arrive disabled/treif!
LBS on the other hand use grade 1 chickens which are healthier and therefore have no chazoko and don't need feet checking!
If your not sure ask Rabbi fefer who is a stamford hiller and the head lbs shochet at lbs poultry
That makes no sense. Every chicken that is treif costs the Union money. It wouldn't make any financial sense to buy poor quality chickens.
DeleteThat could possibly explain why the number of treifos of oifos suddenly dropped by over 70% at the same tame that kedassia took over the business from purchase to butcher
DeleteYou do realise that this is probably the most damning post in this whole thread. Why should it make any difference to the Union whether the chicken is kosher or treif? They are supposed to be supplying expert (kashrut) services certifying that the chicken is or is not kosher.
DeleteIf it is indeed true that they are financially affected by, or have a vested interest in, the outcome of the p'sak their hechsher is worthless.
No different to a dayan sitting in on a din torah about a property in which he is a shittuf (you know what I mean, don't you?).
They are supposed to be anshei emess, yirei Shomayim, who would never accept a bribe and would never pervert the course of justice. A far cry from any of the religious or lay leaders of UOHC.
DeleteI was driving along finchley road, many years ago. I noticed the then elderly dayan M Swift ztvkl struggling with 2 bags of shopping. I stopped my car and offered him a lift, which he immediately refused, saying "you never know, you might come before me in beis din some day, and I wouldn't want to be swayed by being indebted to you".
Most of the current mob, can't even pronounce the sentence correctly, let alone think like that.
Just run a company search on kedassia, and you'll be able to put the puzzle together and get to see the whole picture. There's KEDASSIA LIMITED. KEDASSIA PRODUCTS Ltd. Kedassia HOLDINGS LIMITED (Dissolved). KEDASSIA POULTRY LIMITED. KEDASSIA PRODUCTS LIMITED. KEDASSIA SUPERVISION LIMITED. One kedassia company buys chikens, then they are slaughtered, wholesaled to the butchers and for quite some period of time they even owned a sizeable piece of Gross Butchers. They also strongarmed eckstein into giving them 3/4 of his shop for their factory, and ultimately conned him into setting up a purpose built factory, driving him to the brink of bankruptcy, whilst kedassia milked eckstein and gross for every penny. They continue to milk Reich and Hermolis. Charging for mashgichim that never turn up and allowing caterers to be mechalel shabbos. Quote 'I pay kedassia a licence feeand a fee for a shomer. I'm not a posek. If there's something that is not right, the shomer should stop it. As long as the shomer doesn't stop something in the kitchen, that means it's ok'. And that is how you can have boiling hot Chulent at a kiddush, when the fire was off from midnight - 7:00.
DeleteThe impropriety resonating within the Union is sufficient to keep moshiach away for generations. I only hope that He will not wait until even a hirur tshuva crosses their minds, but will allow moshiach to come speedily in our days.
The Union is finished in GG within 5 years. everybody knows their all about politics and power. they did everything they could to protect chaim halpern because they only care about themselvs and their friends.
ReplyDeleteWith the exception of a handful of individuals, all the union meant to the vast majority in GG was a tax that was added to your catering bill for your simchas, buying kedassia meat in the butchers (eating at LBD or KF restaurants was ok) and a burial at Enfield (or of late Cheshunt). There are no schools, eruv, mikvas, old age care, or any other social community care for GG, under the auspices of the union.
DeleteTo You-nion and all you lot who have been bashing the Union and Keddasia the last year and a half, who would you compare the Union and Keddasia to Manchester United, or Glasgow Rangers or Blockbusters or Clinton Cards or Honda Shuttle or Toyota Previa ???
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 11.5.14 00:15
DeleteOf course we can't compare them.
The various "bodies" you mention are all free market commercial organisations with the normal rules of competition, law, safeguards, accountability and external independent watchdogs and complaints procedures etc. etc.
Keddasia (UOHC) is a monopoly with a captive market. No complaints procedure. No watchdogs. Suspected of playing "fast and loose" with some aspects of the law of the land ( and on a daily basis with the halacha) etc. And certainly no accountability.
Not only that. They claim to be HaShems "watchdog" and are consistently posting announcements telling us what we should do in our own homes. E.G. Internet, how our wives/daughters should dress, posting East European immigrants at street corners to make sure we don't walk with our wives to tashlich and much more.
One would have thought that those who have appointed themselves to set such high standards for others would set similar standards for themselves.
You may rest assured that Honda and Toyota are FAR MORE trustworthy than the Union. (YF and MS wouldn't last a day at either of them if they behaved there the way they consistently behave at 140).
Kosher Deli do deliveries to anywhere within the M25, including N16,
DeleteGG people, LBD and Federation are too ehrlich. people dont want to be ehrlich. Thats why No one gives a damn about CH and tzumois hagidin (are the asme giddin used to wrap the meat?) people want to be frum with groiser shtreimel and a langer burd. Chumrois and ehrlichkeit is not the style its to complicated. Thats why all you people on this blog fight a whole day. A GG with his blue shirt and football player who goes to munks for mincha davens more ehrlich then a lot of chassidicher yingerleit with vaaser zocken by neila. So there you have you answer. What might be the truth is not what the people want. R Berel and R Shimon R abrahams R Hager R Eherntry and all those who seek the truth will get there reward in oilam hoemes. Down here its rebbes with their fancy cars and yichus. up there it means nothing. so dont worry all you frustrated people. You are born an individual and die an individual you are not responsible for sorting the worlds problems so if people sin and are stupid dont take it to heart. The rabonim have tried maybe not enough who knows. 6 Million dies and maybe had the rabonim then made the right decisions then not so many would have perished. So wether you are from gg or sh or edegeware or manchester keddassia or fedration or LBD just love hashem. hashem is in charge not us. We are each employed by him to do our own jobs. LOL to all my dear yiddisher brothers.
ReplyDeleteGaby Lock, is that you?
DeleteI love C H, he lives yidishkiet with a real geshmuk, top fellow.
ReplyDeleteAll of u are just jealous, because he knowsvhow to get right in there
Yup. Dead jealous. He had a grand old time for years and when he was caught he got away with it. How the heck did he manage that one?!? He's smarter than all of us that's for sure
DeleteRight on, just like the Shabtai Tzvi
DeleteI love C H, he lives yidishkiet with a real geshmuk, top fellow.
ReplyDeleteAll of u are just jealous, because he knowsvhow to get right in there
Tesco do deliveries nation wide
ReplyDeleteTesco do deliveries nation wide
ReplyDeleteAs Chicken Licken walked through the woods one day, he was suddenly hit by an acorn fallen from a tree. 'Oh dear, the sky must have fallen, I must go and tell the King!' he exclaimed.
ReplyDeleteto clarify some shecitah facts
ReplyDeleteChicken shecitah,
Keddassia shect in one place in london, they own the shecitah and all keddassia butchers (only 1 left in gg) buy from them. They buy inferior birds hence the chazokah they have found on disabled birds with broken feet.
London board of shecitah shect in 2 places neither owned by themselves. 1 is called lewco pak and is based in Amptill (MK45 2NX) and the other is based in Manchester and called kosher poultry. both use good quality birds and lewko in fact buy in the highest grade poultry in the uk kosher market. Rabbi fefer mentioned earlier is the head shochet in lewko. There is no chazoko of a problem with lewko's chickens as he buys the best quality.
The second lbs place KP is where deli shects. Both use local shoctim
There is no chicken shecitah in ireland. There is a beef shecitah in Ireland which is under dayan eckstein for the 3 sheffa shops. Israeli shoctim are used for this and paid in cash.
both keddassia and lbs shect beef in england with local shoctim
deli buys his chalak beef from poland and sells it under the lbs.They use israeli shoctim
Remember lbs may sell chalak but they may not have chumros on melicho or hashgocho etc.
Also remember that the Knopfler chickens done by shochet reb fefer are only split back which is an additional chumroh and incidently cleaner.
ReplyDeleteKeddassia and shefa do some split back and some not for caterers etc.
I wouldn't knock the polish shecitah, batatz eidah hareidi shect at the same place as deli! And they use shochtim from Israel who sleep in beds other than their own, their shechitah is very chumrodik.
The shefa shechita is shecitah munachas, keddassia isn't! Keddassia said themselves a few years ago that non shecitah munuchas is treif!
Let's clarify some points. Kedassia go to the farm and randomly check the chickens to see if there are any problem with the gidim. The farms used are not just specific for kedassia most other abbatoirs get supplied from the same Farm.
ReplyDeleteThe gidim are checked by opening up the leg from knee to ankle something lbd dint do they check on outside by knee joint so there are less chances of a broken gid being spotted for that reason there are more treifa in kedassia and other hechsherim that open up.
The chickens under dayan eckstein are under Manchester beis din with his name in it, just like the meat from Ireland.
Unless one is fully knowledgeable about the ins and outs of shecita don't speculate. Kedassia is a UK shecita and it serves the purpose don't let things get diluted by going abroad.
Mr expert!
ReplyDeleteDayan eckstein has 2 chicken shecitah's
1 shefa mehadrim in Manchester, under dayan eckstein and previously under dayan Westheim, incidently they started checking tzimus hagidim 4 years prior to keddassia. Like keddassia they do both split back and non split back
2 the second chicken shechitah under dayan eckstein is the LBS lewko who only do split back-more mehudar that keddassia!. This shect house without doubt uses the highest grade birds in the UK kosher market. So less treifos.
Both use UK shochtim and do tzimus hagidim properly. No keddassia is not special!! Just a special high price, special poor quality/disabled birds, and generally feeling special and superior about themselves.
All dayan ECKSTEINS chickens are properly checked! What a cheak to spread lies.
Why would Dayan Eckstien need to do tzomos hagidin at lewko if they use superior quality chickens?
DeleteAll these discussions about the technicalities of shechita etc. are, mainly by anonymous posters who don't know much about it, irrelevant to the central point.
ReplyDeleteIt has been established beyond dispute that there is in UOHC/Keddassia , at best, elements of serious corruption and clear signs of vested interest taking priority over what is right, just and more important, honourable.
They have lost, in the minds of all right thinking people, and especially in the minds of the overwhelming majority of their licenses and employees, all respect. They did it to themselves.
Dayan eckstein has chickens from shefa in Manchester which are also under Manchester beis din.
ReplyDeleteDayan eckstein also has chickens from oif mehadrim from kosher outlet which also have a LBS hechsher as well as reb Berrel Knopfler,
Mr Expert, you are confused
Enough is enough this Sechita subject is sooooo boring. Is there any thing else we can discuss. What's the latest raid being discussed in the Mikveh ??
ReplyDeleteal pi sod ossur losuach bemikveh
DeleteDayan eckstein has two shechitas. What experience had the dayan got exactly with regards shechita? From what I know the shechitas are done under a beis din licence he just puts his name on it. Why is his anymore mehudar then if without his name?
ReplyDeleteAnd what does Rabbi Padwa know about shechita? Before he became Gaavad (sic) he was Rosh Kollel of the Skverer Kollel.
DeleteDayan eckstein's brother has one of the biggest mehadrim shechitas in the usa. 100 times bigger than keddassia. Dayan eckstein has extensive shimush with his brother.
ReplyDeleteDon't knock until you know the facts.
What hasn't been mentioned so far is lbd's higher standards of glatt.
ReplyDeleteWhere as keddasia pass off 30+% of animals as glatt, lbd take only about 4%! The reason being that kedassia have to pass off non glatt as treif at a loss, whereas lbd pass it on to their butchers who sell non glatt.
I wasn't asking about the brother.i know how big he is in the usa it's what the dayan here knows. Why does his name on a chicken make it more mehadrin?
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of chickens, is it true that Kedassia ran out of chickens before Pesach and acquired some from another hechsher and changed the label?
ReplyDeleteIs it true that Reb Chuna met Reb Kimche lately and had a long dicussion about the NW London Eruv?
They had a fire and what exactly is the problem getting Chickens from another source of they are legit according to kedassia standards
DeleteAmazing how 1 man can bring this community so low, chaimkel do the right thing and bugger off.
ReplyDeleteAmazing how 1 man can bring this community so low, chaimkel do the right thing and bugger off.
ReplyDeleteShtik drek
ReplyDeleteEvery person who knows his stuff is well aware that London Board of Shechita (LBS) meat and chicken is very high standard and perfectly ok to eat with or without the extra hechsher from R' Knopfler/Eckstein. Kedassia has negios (conflict of interest be'laaz) so even they theoretically have higher standards (which i'm not sure they do) you shouldn't prefer their meat unless you trust them absolutely.
ReplyDeleteWhich nobody does anymore......
Keddasia and Halperns translates bullies.
ReplyDeleteDear Rabbi Padwa,
ReplyDeleteI would just like to thank you on behalf of the entire community,
For the way you handled the CH situation, you have made us all trust our rabonim and of course resoect all the rabonim.
Never have you bottled under pressure,
Thank you again.
Eruv committee.
Its incredible,
ReplyDeleteLast year there was clear tzetluch hanging up in most shuls saying that Mr C Halpern is NOT suitable for being a Rabbi,
Listen up man, u are NO MORE RABBI.
END OF
Its incredible,
ReplyDeleteLast year there was clear tzetluch hanging up in most shuls saying that Mr C Halpern is NOT suitable for being a Rabbi,
Listen up man, u are NO MORE RABBI.
END OF
Lets look at this from a pragmatic perspective.
ReplyDeleteChaim Halpern was held on police bail for a year +. He was forced to resign from multiple PAYING positions within the community. The 5 GD rabbonim caused him to loose approx 70% of his members. I would put a value on this of around 100k a year of lost earnings. What I cannot understand, with all this said and done IF he is not guilty (which I know and most people know is incorrect) why has he not sued the pants off the 5 GD rabbonim and everyone else involved? It baffles me. He isnt the kind of guy to take this lying down (he gave it lying down maybe!!)
Hes trying to continue his life as if this never happened, he has very little left to loose if he really was innocent. SUE SUE SUE if your really innocent. Lets get this to court and prove us all wrong, going to court hasnt fazed him up to now?
Latest update,
ReplyDeleteThe beis din has sent a letter of siruv to 3 parties.
1. To the halpern family who are keeping it under wraps, maybe its wrapped up in a towel.
2. To eisner who initiated the beis din on behalf of keddassia. Its possibly wrapped up in dayan padwas cover ups.
3. To reb d Kohn, reb D Kohn is reb P Roberts sun in law. Reb P Roberts is keeping it back!
The letter was sent before pessach!!
R Dovid Kohn is not R Roberts son in law. He is his nephew by marriage as his father in law is a brother of R Roberts.
DeleteHe spelt "sun" not "son"!
DeleteFreudian slip?
If this is true and nothing has been done about it, this brings major questions in kashrut, whether the hechsharim in London are kosher, I mean if Rabbonim are not listening to a Bais Din how could we trust anything they say
DeleteIt appears that you are only starting to wake up and realise what is going on around you.
DeleteThe UK has the best police forces in the world, yet corruption is rife.
Limewise, some of the best dayonim in the world are in the UK, yet corruption is rife.
These people are no better than anyone else, although they deluded themselves to believe that they are. They went to the same schools and yeshivas as you and I. They learnt in kollel and suddenly discovered that mannah doesn't fall from heaven everyday. They needed a job.
Ordinary people, like you and I, got a job in jewellery, property, etc. Some of our colleagues went to university (loh oleinu veloh al boneinu) and bexame lawyers, accountants, doctors, etc.
But the chevra who spent 10 years in kollel, suddenly discovered that supporting a family of 12 requires more than sitting in front of a gemorah and a tur for 6 hours a day (with a 2 hour shloof in the afternoon). Oh no, they need a job, but starting out as a junior rep, won't support their family, they are 10 years and 8 kids behind everyone else.
Only solution - become a rov/dayan.
In the good old days, a rov was appointed for his middos. Shas yidden were a dime a dozen. that 5th volume of the shulchan oruch was completely destroyed, and today, a beard, frack and a bent up hat, is the only qualifications the son of a rov or dayan needs.
As rav Chayim Vital writes that the absolute basis for torah is good middos. Without middos, a person can learn all his kife, and may attain a very high standard of knowledge - maybe even sufficient to argue with Abayeh and Roveh - but, that knowledge is in the subject of Jewish theological law. It is no better than Greek philosophy, Chinese medicine or mechanical engineering. But it's not Torah. Derech eretz kodmoh letorah, without prior attainment of good middos the learning is secularised.
A dayan can be a genius, and kniw shas and poskim inside out and back to front. If he is lacking in middos, he is worse than a secular judge sitting in court. The secular judiciary has checks and balances to ensure that judges are not able to be placed in a situation where they can be enticed. To minimise problems, for all men are open to temptation. The batei din of the UOHC is a hefkeirus. If you know the right people, .......
Unfortunately, the few good ones, have been corrupted by their colleagues and have sunken to their levels too. Yet, still believe themselves to be a צדיק יסוד עולם. Delusions of grandeur, one of the yetzer horah's favourite weapons.
Maybe the reason Moshiach isn't here yet. He's still trying to find 70 dayonim who fit the criteria for the sanhedrin.
I don't want to be Dan if ur right or wrong, m"m if we ignore these rabonim, Who will we have left?
DeleteI think it means they've issued a ksav siruv against someone and sent copies of it to the Halpern family and to Rav Eisner and Rav Kohn - not that they are the mesarvim. But, if indeed it has not been sent to anyone else, and if indeed one can believe any of this, the inference would be that it's against one or more members of the Halpern family.
ReplyDeleteLatest update, ongoing meetings in golders green this week attended by local rabonim.
ReplyDeleteThey are looking to put CH in cheirem,
They are fuming with reb P Roberts for holding back the letter from the beis din.
Am still confirming facts, info still coming in!
@Cheirem
ReplyDeleteSounds exciting! But this won't happen while his father, our Mora D'asra is around.
May he live till Mosiach comes....
Although he is little better than your common sicilian capo, and I have very little time for him, I wish him no ill. May he live even after Moshiach arrives.
DeleteIf the head of 171 would be told exactly what his perv son has been up to the last 20 years he would tell him to leave as well. problem is porky pie only telling him half stories.
ReplyDeleteThough it would give him much pain, he would continue to publicly support his own allegedly wayward sons. Business is business.
Deletetwo taxi cars were seen leaving 71 after 2am this week with female passengers pressumably from N16, so he is still at it!
ReplyDeleteTexi, more like.
DeleteIs this a new twist to "bird watching"?
DeleteIf R Roberts is holding the letter back, and they are so angry, why don't they give a copy to the GD rabbonim?
ReplyDeleteThey were thinking of putting R' Roberts in Cherem also, but decided against as it wouldn't change his level of communal involvement!
ReplyDeleteTrue buy maybe it would stop vile and insulting letters being sent to our brethren in Gateshead demanding that they send representation to spend time with the righteous and holy members of the NW London community (ie Hendon Adass) rather than the shkutzim and mechalelei shabbos. (Apologies to those who don't know what i'm referring to)
DeleteOh, don't apologise. Just please explain.
DeleteWho is the "they"?
DeleteReb Pinchos Roberts has asked his kehilah to look for a replacement.
ReplyDeleteObviously he has given up on getting hhis son a job as rav.
All of us in reb chunas with EH made the same decision instead of leaving us with porky pie!
GG will be a better place without Roberts
It's your choice to still remain in EH's shul.... it's inevitable that MH will take over one day....
DeleteHighly unlikely that MH will take over and if he does he won't be much of a success.
DeleteMany people, myself included, only stay at Beis Shmuel out of respect for R' Elchonon. Even with his faults, and even you must admit they are few and minor, he is a great man, a Rov for many years and has achieved much in conditions that were much more difficult than they are now.
And he is a fully qualified "dayan" able to pasken shaalos, sit in on dinei torah and do gittin and kidushin etc. and has vast experience of all of these. None of which applies to MH.
The fact that he supported RCH the whole time is to be expected and is the right thing for him. He is after all his son. I would (and do!) support my son whatever happens and I take it for granted that you would do the same.
What a disgusting comment.
DeleteREH is above allowing his fatherly feelings override his objectivity.
It is very sad that most of his congregants whist giving grudging recognition of his greatness,have in fact not got the slightest idea of what a צדיק and אדם גדול he really is.
And if RMH is not as great as his father it doesn't mean that he's not a very admirable person with much ability .
May RCH be well till 120,when it will be the appropriate time RMH is well qualified to take over.
Anonymous - in the real world, if someone tried to currupt a professional investigation into their son's misconduct, he would be fired from whatever positions of authority he held. Backing one's family come what may is understandable, but there is nothing righteous about it.
DeleteMatthew (OYB) - Lol. It must be fun to inhabit a parallel universe.
Matthew.
DeleteI remind you that HaShem looks away for our considerable misdeeds because he considers us his children (Im k'vonim rachmaeinu etc.).
How is this reminder relevant to my comment(s)?
Deletewhat happened in Gateshead?
ReplyDelete"Reb Pinchos Roberts has asked his kehilah to look for a replacement"
ReplyDeleteKehilla? Barely a minyan!
Rb Roberts is essentially a well intentioned man, with human failings - as have we all - which have led him to make some monstrous errors of judgement in the past.
ReplyDeleteHe is, and never was, suited for the rabbinate. His social skills are very limited, and his lifelong ambition to be genuine Litvak - something not supported by his natural childhood surroundings - has led him to many an error, social and halachic.
His true calling was for a lifetime spent within the hallowed halls of a yeshiva, where his vast knowledge, great intellect, and naturally superb oratory skills, would have been appreciated and appropriate.
Unfortunately, for him, his family, and the entire NW London community, he chose a different path, to which he was ill-suited.
His retirement from the HAYC will be a blessing for him and, if the board chooses an appropriate replacement, for the Shul. If his retirement is from active Union duties, the blessing will extend to the entire community.
However, should he choose to leave Golders Green, that will be a tragic loss for the community. Warts and all, he is a genuinely Erlich Yid.
פי האסון,כשמו כן הוא
DeleteFrom the witless drivel that you post it is obvious that you are unqualified to comment on a great rabbi such as the highly revered Rabbi Roberts,whose elevated qualities are far beyond your feeble comprehension.
Hey Matthew - if you have such a high opinion of Rabbi Roberts why don't you accept his view that Charlie Menuvel is a disgusting animal? Or will you try to obfuscate, as you did in the past with the JC's quote of Dayan Lichtenstein, and pretend that he doesn't really think Charlie is as bad as all that?
DeleteOne does not need to agree with all the opinions of those one holds in high regard.
DeleteRabbis are not infallible.
St. Matthew,
DeleteNor does one need to disagree with all of the opinions of those one holds in low regard. So you can reconsider some of the comments made by those commentators whom you can't stand.
The commentators that I disagree with are unknown to me,so there is no possibility of not being able to stand them.
DeleteWhat I can't stand is the negative aspects of their comments,namely;stupidity ,malicious rumourmongering,spreading outright lies and showing terrible disrespect for תלמידי חכמים.
Matthew, you are right that some of the comments about R'Roberts are disrespectful. But it is undeniable that he has failed to lead his kehilla since the start of his tenure. Once he worked out that he was in the wrong job, he had two honourable choices, either leave or change behaviour so that the kehilla would have someone who would relate to them and provide the pastoral care which was so badly needed. He did neither, and so he now needs to take responsibility for his decision. For example, RR has refused to go to matzeivos, kiddushim, sholom zochors etc. These are times when you need your rov, and he simply wasn't there for his kehilla. Those times can't be replaced and generations have grown up without knowing what a communal rov should and could be. It is said in the shul that the Rov has single handedly spurned the growth of the most kehillos in Hendon, at a cost of his own. Mark
DeleteGoing to kiddushim,sholom zochors is not part of pastoral care.
DeleteMany Rabbonim avoid going to these dos,they haven't got the time,and they would spend half their lives traipsing from simcha to simcha.
Concerning matzeivos their is no reason at all for them to go.
This is a modern ritual and is not part of our tradition.
A rov has to be continually learning in order to able to pasken.
HaRav Charles was always very makpid on these elements of pastoral care; as well as some other elements a little off piste for your typical man of God. Was he unlearned as a result? Why is attending a kiddush at ner or Dayan A so time consuming? And why would he rather beggar belief than condem a powerful man in public for the sins committed against the weak?. He must have a Matthew shulchan aruch with fealty to highly partisan causes as its guiding light.
DeleteHe is a genuine person with lots of bein Odom leemokom butno bein Odom lechaveiroi,
ReplyDeletereminds me of EH
I have suffered at both their hands
Look where they are now
St. Matthew, that was a great sermon!
ReplyDeleteWill all of you just calm down please.
ReplyDeleteI have some breaking news to tell you all,
But u will all just have to wait a few days to hear the breaking news.
This is the icing on the cake.
@velvel is back. You are such a troll you made me LOL. if you had some breaking news there is no way you would have controlled yourself. haha, we all await no news from you in the next few years. People have been saying for 18 months now, "big breaking news" "next few days"
DeleteVelvel, spill the beans.
DeleteHave you got hold of a copy of the letter?
What is a letter of siruv?
ReplyDeleteA k'sav siruv can be issued ONLY by a formally constituted kehilla beis din.
DeleteIt is ultra-virus for a "home-made" beis din to issue one. If it were possible any 3 rabbis could convene a beis din, summon someone and when he refuses issue a k'sav siruv.
UOHC, LBD, Feds etc. can normally issue one but not in this case because they are parties to the matter under inquiry. . This is not beis din it is a court of inquiry set up by a vested interest i.e. UOHC of which RCH is a dayan so obviously can't. They have no power to summon and there is no obligation on anyone to go if they do.
Ultra-virus,
ReplyDeleteSounds dangerous.
Perhaps you meant ultra vires
Resorting to spelling (f)lames now Matthew?
DeleteKind of the last resort of someone with no arguments left.
How you can put Roberts on such a pedestal? He has absolutely no regard for his fellow man, and has no qualms about letting those he considers beneath him (the 99%) know it in no uncertain terms.
I'm glad that you have had a good experience with him. You are the exception. If the rest of us felt the same way, his son would have been installed a decade or two ago.
Instead the shul I grew up in is a place I have no desire to enter again.
His obnoxious arrogance is truly staggering, as is his judgemental attitude towards the 99%.
I'm hoping he DOES move away....Hooray!!! He's finally Off. Human Beings may now apply for the role.
Matthew.
DeleteSorry, typo. I meant vires.
Freudian slip?
Virus, unlike bacteria, are not living organisms are not as easy to destroy.
Now you've brought up something really interesting,though whether it'd interest readers of this blog is doubtful.
DeleteIt all rests on the definitions of "living" and "organisms" and there's many differing opinions among scientists.
Some would like to put viruses in a category of things that are neither living nor "non-living"
Come on Matthew. Who cares what the scientists, who have done years of research and are always happy to debate their findings, say?
DeleteWhat does the UOHC/Kedassia Rabbinate say?
"Judgemental attitude towards the 99%"
DeleteHow can you say such a thing after having been so nastily judgemental about Rabbi Roberts .Being non-judgemental is a very important principle in Yiddishkeit,it is called being דן לכף זכות.
This blog started out in order to discredit one rov,soon they will all be attacked.
Unfortunately so many people think that a rov has to be everyone's best pal,condoning all sorts of laxity in his kehilla.
It's not a rov's duty to be popular.In fact an unpopular rov is more likely to be doing his job properly than a popular rov.
Those that dislike his insistence on high standards of halachic observance will often tend to dislike him as a person,because they have no idea what a rov is supposed to be like.
The duty of a communal rov is to care for his community, and draw them closer to HaShem, whatever it takes. For some communities that means giving a shiur, for others giving guidance on how to kasher a kitchen for pesach. For some, it involves going to shivas, bris, weddings and even sholom zochors. The good rov will know what to do, and like it or not, will do whatever is needed.
DeleteThere is bein odom laMokom, bein odom lechaveiroi. Unfortunately, so many rabbonim are ruled by bein odom leKISOI.
Well CH seems to have successfully put everything behind him. This is how he is now titled on JDN:
ReplyDeleteהגה"צ רבי חיים היילפרין שליט"א
אב"ד דברי חיים לאנדאן
Far from being summoned to a Beis Din, he now has an upgrade to an Av Beis Din
Meilech Schwartz is greater than RCH.
ReplyDelete1. RCH is Ava"d of a shul, Melech Schwartz is Ava"d of a whole town - Tschaba.
2. RCH is only Ava"d, Melech Schwartz is Ava"d AND Ra"m (Rosh Mesivta).
Matthew.
ReplyDeleteYou are completely wrong about the duties of a Rav/Dayan.
For starters may I refer you to Tehillim 72 (particular reference to verse 2).
Ramban al haTorah in Yisro and Devorim.
And, obviously, the first 10 or 15 Simanim of Shulchan Oruch Choshen Mishpat.